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Dec 4, 12 RE: Two Cents -- A Radio Survey Forum Eldon Sanders Luoma
 
Hi Everyone,
Hope all is well out there in survey land with you!!!!  I have not reported on
Chart Chat for perhaps 10 months or so. So long overdue to comment a bit.  First of
all have enjoyed all the survey postings.   I have been a radio station survey or
chart collector since about 1967.  Have about 3000 different radio station music
charts in my collection counting one per station.   Also have a lot of traders all
original or orignal photocopies from the stations.   Most are originals from the
stations.   

I have been in the Cobourg, Ontario since late May 2012 as I get all my radio
memorabilia and radio parts organized here.  I'm in the radio electronic mailorder
business and was long overdue to make a trip here not having been here since 200l
when I was here for over a year!  Fortunately my relatives who live in the Cobourg
area helped out greatly with the mailorder business while I was gone and of course
was in touch with them all the time from my home base of Langley,  British Columbia
Canada.   I will be heading back there in December or January 2013.  Anyway in the
meantime I am making up a master survey list for 2012 of all my charts.  I have
been doing some major trades and sales of surveys with several longtime USA radio
friends.  I have a fair amount of radio charts from before 1965.  If anyone would
like more info. or to email me or write check out our website at
cfayradio.wordpress.com for more information and some neat photos of charts.

When I last posted I think it was Lee who asked about WHB charts or KXOK from
Missouri.  Well over 75 Per Cent of my survey collection has been sitting here at
our family home in Cobourg, Ontario for the past 10 years.  I have about 500 charts
not counting traders out in B.C..  Well Lee I found the WHB charts here.  If you
need them they are the Sept. 29, 1967 issue, the April 29, 1982 WHB Chart, and a
WHB ALL TIME 300 Printed Chart with drawing of the Beatles on it. Number one on
that one is "Leader of the Pack" by the Shangri-las.   I can't find an actual date
of when it was printed by the station but listings go up to 1977 so probably late
1970s.   I also have a lot of other Missouri radio station charts including some
year-end ones and a lot from KWOS 1240 Jefferson City, Missouri.

I would love to send some chart copies into ARSA but don't have a scanner here and
I am not quite sure what the procedure is to do this.  Also since I am quite busy I
am not sure how time consuming it might be.  Having read other comments on Chart
Chat it appears there are certain procedures etc. and it does sound a bit
complicated!!!   I would be happy to mail ARSA a few surveys for free from my
Canadian Traders if a postal mailing address could be sent to me!  You can email me
that if you like.

Anyhow this is a great online music and chart site, really enjoy all the
interesting information.   Sorry I have not posted more often recently but just
found my password buried in my briefcase here!!!!   As well I also have a huge
collection of over 4000 radio station coverage maps if anyone would like to trade
some originals of them.  I am looking for coverage maps for WJR 760 and WBAP 820
since my photocopies are poor and I would like to replace them with originals.  If
you like oldies music CKOC 1150 and CKDO 1580 in Oshawa, Ontario play a great
selection.   Also CJBQ 800 Belleville, Ontario has a weekday afternoon great
vintage oldies program, their normal format is country.   

Take care everyone and happy collecting to you!!!!
Nov 27, 12 CKLC Kingston RE2: 1969-08-30 / CKLC ( Kingston, Ontario ) K.A. Scott
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Gary!  I think indicating an unspecified date
in October is probably the best solution ... at least until some more CKLC surveys
from the fall of 1969 show up. 
Nov 27, 12 WABC New York RE8: 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) Gary Pfeifer
 
 Lee,

  Thank you very much for your dedication and work effort!  Much appreciated.

  As an interesting side note, I just added the WABC printed survey image from
8/31/61 and it corresponded with the Musicradio77.com website date of 8/29/61 -
only a 2 day gap.  Apparently, the longer 11 day gap between survey unveiling date
and printed survey date did not start until later on.

  Again, have a safe and very enjoyable cruise!

   Gary
Nov 27, 12 WABC New York RE7: 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) Lee Tucker
 
Gary

The 1965 WABC February 13 & 20 surveys have been cleaned up and now correspond with
the musicradio77.com website 2 & 9 February 1965 WABC surveys.  Wanted to get these
done before I left so I don't have to revisit this somewhat confusing scenario when
I return in about 10 days.  Hopefully, the 1965 WABC surveys will be smooth sailing
(no pun intended) from here on out.  Thanks for the well wishes and I have many,
many more surveys to contribute when we return.  Cheers!

Nov 27, 12 CKLC Kingston RE: 1969-08-30 / CKLC ( Kingston, Ontario ) Gary Pfeifer
 
Kenn,

   Good catch!  From the case you've presented, I would certainly agree that the
8/30/69 date on this survey is incorrect and that a date sometime in October is
much more reasonable.  I like using the Beatles' Something/Come Together as a
baseline as I would think all radio stations (large and small markets) would have
added it very quickly after release.

  Excluding this survey, Something's first appearance (based on charts in ARSA) is
WPOP's 9/22/69 survey with a handful of other adds in late September.  By the first
ten days in October, it looks like everyone was on it.  If it premiered on CKLC
during this time and the survey in question is the song's third appearance, the
third or fourth week in October appears a reasonable guess.  This would put The
Band's Cripple Creek premier in line with other stations too.

  Whether the CKLC survey should have been 10/30/69 we'll never know, unless the
previous or subsequent weeks' survey appear at some point.  I can modify it to an
unspecified date in October though.  Any thoughts??
Nov 26, 12 CKLC Kingston 1969-08-30 / CKLC ( Kingston, Ontario ) K.A. Scott
 
Hi all...

  While we're on the subject of confusing dates, check out this survey, which
clearly has the date "August 30, 1969" printed right on it.  It's my feeling that
this date has GOT to be in error.  Look at the #4 track on it, "Something"/"Come
Together" by The Beatles.  No other ARSA survey has these tracks listed on any
chart dated before September 22 ... but not only is this little station in
Kingston, Ontario playing these tracks on August 30 -- this is the *third* week
these songs are on the chart!  

  What's really incredible is that these songs' *first* week on the chart would
have therefore been August 16...and the Beatles only finished recording "Something"
on August 15th!  (Neither song was commercially released until the Abbey Road LP
came out on September 26th in the UK, and a few days later in North America; the
double A-side single came out about a week later.) 

  So it's my feeling that the August 30 date for this survey has got to be a typing
error on the original chart.  Other oddities include The Band's "Up On Cripple
Creek", supposedly charting on CKLC a full six weeks before any other station in
North America (and also three weeks before the song was issued on LP, and three
*months* before a single was commercially available); "Tracy" by The Cuff Links
enjoying its second week at #1, whereas at the same time, it was only a just-issued
hitbound track everywhere else on the continent...

  My best guess is that the actual survey date should be October 30, not August 30.
But what do you folks think?  


  Cheers,

  - Kenn.   
Nov 26, 12 WABC New York RE6: 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) Gary Pfeifer
 
 Lee,

  I believe there is a very strong likelihood that what you described is what
occurred.  I had even brought up the possibility of the 2/20/65 printed survey date
being in error earlier. 

  I'll take care of modifying the 2/20/65 (now 2/27/65) survey which was a prior
upload of mine.  If you could clean up the rest at your convenience, that would be
great! MOST importantly tho, enjoy your Caribbean cruise!!  Sounds wonderful!

  Thanks again for all your efforts and contributions.

    Gary
Nov 26, 12 WABC New York RE5: 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) Lee Tucker
 
Gary

I think I may have figured out what happened. I think the culprit is the printed
February 20, 1965, survey which I believe to be a typo.  Unless I missed something,
if you were to change the date on that survey to February 27, 1965, the
musicradio77.com survey dated February 16, 1965 would now be the corresponding
survey and we have our 11 day gap between unveiling and print dates.  Doing this
would also eliminate the "missing survey" and would result in the following
musciradio 77.com and print date matchups, all with correct LW data and the
appropriate 11 day gaps:

Musicradio77.com          Print survey
Feb 2                      Feb 13
Feb 9                      Feb 20
Feb 16                     Feb 27 (presently dated Feb 20)
Feb 24 (s/b Feb 23)        Mar 6

If you agree that this is what may have happened, I'd be happy to clean up those
surveys I contributed upon my return.  Starting Thursday, I'll be off-line until
December 11 as we're doing an early Christmas Caribbean cruise. Let me know.   

Nov 25, 12 WABC New York RE4: 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) Gary Pfeifer
 
 Lee,

   Very much appreciate your understanding and cooperation! Beginning with 1965,
there will be many more WABC's surveys already entered using the printed survey
date.  I know you'll try your best to make your newly entered survey as consistent
as possible with those in the database.  Thx!

   Gary
Nov 25, 12 WABC New York RE3: 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) Lee Tucker
 
Hi Gary

The changes you suggested have been made.  I totally agree with you about the
confusion created by the difference between WABC's survey unveiling and printed
survey dates; perhaps this is why the Musicradio77.com WABC website does not
contain any survey images. Prior to my beginning to enter 1965 surveys, this WABC
date variance was not an issue as relatively few WABC surveys had been contributed
to ARSA and I used the website survey dates with only a few date conflicts. 
However, since the ARSA data base contains quite a few 1965 WABC surveys, I've had
to return to my survey files and change the survey dates I downloaded from the
website so as to fit ARSA's 1965 WABC survey date continuity flow. A few more
anomalies might occur as I go forward but there really aren't that many 1965 WABC
surveys left to contribute.  While this date variance is kind of confusing, I feel
the 1965 WABC survey gaps in the ARSA data base deserve to be filled and am happy
to do so.  Cheers.

    -Lee

Nov 24, 12 WILK Wilkes-Barre RE: 1968-08-24 / WILK ( Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania ) Gary Pfeifer
 
  Hi Kenn,

   It was a single released on Tower and it's now been added to the database.  Thx
for pointing this out!
Nov 24, 12 WILK Wilkes-Barre 1968-08-24 / WILK ( Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania ) K.A. Scott
 
Hi Gary...

  Thanks for fixing the Mathis and Mack tracks!  Here's another misfiring redirect:
 The #72 hit on this 1968 chart ("Everyday" by The Main Attraction) is currently
redirecting to the 1983 hit "Everyday I Write The Book" by Elvis Costello & The
Attractions.  Once the The Main Attraction song is entered into the database, this
problem should cease.  

  (Just FYI, I can't find a single release for this track, but it did appear on The
Main Attraction's 1968 LP "And Now...The Main Attraction".)

  Cheers,

  - Kenn.
Nov 24, 12 WABC New York RE2: 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) Gary Pfeifer
 
 Lee,

  Thanks for your response.  I see that the previously entered 2/20/65 WABC survey
(taken from the printed survey) corresponds with 2/16/65 survey on the
www.musicradio77.com website, which is not the 11 day gap usually seen between the
unveiling and printed survey dates.  I agree with you that it then appears logical
that the 2/13/65 printed survey would correspond to the 2/9/65 survey on the
www.musicradio77.com website.  However, if we do that, it appears that there then
is a missing survey - what printed survey date does the www.musicradio77.com
website's 2/2/65 survey correspond to? 

  I see the 3/6/65 printed survey corresponds with the 2/24/65 survey on the
website - back to the 11 days again.  Either the date on the 2/20/65 printed survey
was in error or the gap between the unveiling and printed survey dates varied from
time to time.

   This whole thing about the difference between WABC's survey unveiling and
printed survey dates has always made my mind spin. :)  I've tried to avoid this
confusion by only entering WABC surveys where I had the printed survey or
copies/images thereof.

   Here's my suggestions and if you donít believe these are proper, please let me
know.  Modify your note to indicate that this survey corresponds to the 2/9/65
survey on the www.musicradio77.com website and also change the LW numbers to the
LW's from the 2/9/65.  This will at least eliminate confusion of anyone comparing
the two.  I know this is not perfect but I don't see any ideal solution.  No matter
what we do, something is out of wack.  Right now, we still have the missing 2/2/65
survey.  If printed surveys of these dates show up later, we can always modify
dates to whatever is actually shown on the printed survey.

  Thanks for your assistance.
Nov 24, 12 WABC New York RE: 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) 0
 
Hi Gary

I agree with you concerning the confusion on this survey as I was confused by this
particular survey once ARSA Jim made us aware of the 11-day gap between WABC print
and unveiling dates.  I also agree that this 2/13/65 WABC survey should  correspond
with the musicradio77.com 2/2/65 survey.  What I think happened is that when I
looked ahead to the printed WABC 2/20/65 survey you had previously contributed, the
LW data didn't correspond with the musicradio77.com 2/2/65 survey; rather, the LW
data corresponded with their 2/9/65 survey which is what I used while dating it
2/13/65, making the appropriate LW data changes, and ignoring their 2/2/65 survey. 
Since the real answer may be lost to history, it appears we can either let this ride
(and eliminate the Note), use the musicradio77.com 2/2/65 survey (and date it
2/13/65) and ignore the LW mismatch with the printed 2/20/65 survey, or delete this
survey and move on.  Your call and standing by.
Nov 23, 12 WABC New York 1965-02-13 / WABC ( New York, New York ) Gary Pfeifer
 
 Hi Lee,

  There's a bit of confusion on this survey. In your NOTE, it states that the
printed survey date was 11 days after the actual unveiling date (and the date used
on the musicradio77.com website).  So, this 2/13/65 printed survey should
correspond with the 2/2/65 survey shown on musicradio77.com. However, this survey
corresponds with the 2/9/65 survey on musicradio77.com and the LW numbers don't
seem to match up with either.

   Could you please clarify or correct. Thanks!

    
Nov 22, 12 CFRA Ottawa RE: 1958-11-22 / CFRA ( Ottawa, Ontario ) Gary Pfeifer
 
Hi Kenn,

  I added the Jeanne Mack single (thanks for the label info) and the entry on the
CFRA survey is now directing to the proper song.

  
 Found that "Heavenly" by Johnny Mathis was released on a Columbia extended play
(EP) with 3 other songs.  All have been added and the Johnny Mathis entry on the
survey now directs properly.

  Thanks for bringing these to my attention.

   Gary
Nov 22, 12 CFRA Ottawa 1958-11-22 / CFRA ( Ottawa, Ontario ) K.A. Scott
 
Hi Gary...

  For this survey, the track "Jimmy" by Jeanne Mack is redirecting to "Jimmy Love"
by Jeanne Black.  Once the Jeanne Mack single is entered into the ARSA database
("Jimmy"/"Dirty Dishes", on Class 2060), this should take care of itself.

  There's a similar problem with the Johnny Mathis track "Heavenly", for the CFRA
survey of 1959/11/21.  It's currently redirecting to a Johnny Madara track of the
same name.  I can't find evidence that the Mathis version of "Heavenly" was
released as a single, but it's track 1 on his 1959 LP "Heavenly".

  Cheers,

  - Kenn.
Nov 9, 12 WKBR Manchester RE7: 1961-11-05 / WKBR ( Manchester, New Hampshire ) Lee Tucker
 
Gary

Will do; have a great weekend.
Nov 9, 12 WKBR Manchester RE6: 1961-11-05 / WKBR ( Manchester, New Hampshire ) Gary Pfeifer
 
 Lee,

  I couldn't find a way to contact the website administrator either.  Let's stick
with the decision to leave them off unless further evidence of their
authenticity/origin is obtained.
Nov 9, 12 WKBR Manchester RE5: 1961-11-05 / WKBR ( Manchester, New Hampshire ) Lee Tucker
 
Gary

Re: the WKIX year end surveys.

I again revisited the website and couldn't figure out any way to contact a site
administrator.  The closest I could find was a link for a Blog site but there
hasn't been a post to its since 2007.